POTD: JARROD WASHBURN
![]() Aloha from Jamaica-mon and G'die from the Louvre. Or something. My wife will let me know where we are when she comes and kicks my 'net-cafe chair over. Garcon, another doppio. Only got a half hour to see if there are any baseball fans left in Seattle (or who frequent Vission de Detectair) anymore. Q: Quick, Doc, what's the good news?! A: ::winning smile:: VERY few people get the disease named after them! And the therapy qualifies as experimental, so we'll pick up the tab on that too. Everything's coming up gold. . Q: If you even try to reverse your field on the WashBURN signing now, we are prepared to pitch-and-flame your castle... A: ::see smile at top left of homepage:: I'm always open to new experiences, provided they're righteous. An unruly mob can't be any better or worse than Jarrod Washburn for 4/$36m or an hour of Dodgeball with cheaters in 95% humidity. The fact that the Mariners are willing to give this contract to Jarrod Washburn, and UNwilling to give Kevin Millwood ONE MORE STEENKING YEAR? That, in one move, sums up everything that Silentpadna and I have been crying and moaning about for four bloomin' years. Washburn-for-4 over Millwood-for-5 absolutely sums up the Mariner business organization, and it sums up the root cause of their wussiness on the field. Sorry. Can't dance around the question. When the generals have no mojo, the troops won't either. And as you and I know, bulldogging the calf in a half-hearted way is the very FASTEST way to go to the hospital (or to 96-loss City). The Mariners' very cowardice is precisely what makes their worst nightmares come true. In this case, that nightmare is the fact that they are one of the worst 5 teams in baseball, and the only one of the bottom 5 that is rich. Lincoln and Armstrong are turning in Tampa Bay results with $90m payrolls. Their refusal to give Kevin Millwood the 5th year is one more swing-and-miss that keeps them there. . Q: You still think the Mariners will contend in 06? A: They could, yes. ... The M's start at -52 runs .... Felix +40, Johjima +20-40, Everett =, Washburn +30 ... That's about +100 runs. ... then there are the improvements from the young kids, further trades, etc. On paper, the difference between Washburn and Millwood is probably only about 20 runs or so. It's not the 2006 dealbreaker. . Q: Are you trying to say Washburn will be effective in 2006?! A: Washburn has never been anything but effective. He'll be very effective again in 2006. He'll probably be in the top 25 in the league in ERA. I'll have him about #20 on my AL SP draft list. His K's are marginal and he's tricking people, BUT: 1) His BB rates, the last 5 years, have ranged from 2.1 to 2.5. 2) His HR rates, the last 5 years, have ranged from 0.8 to 1.2. 3) His translated ERA's, the last 5 years, have ranged from 3.18 to 4.01. Here, get a load of Washburn's translated ERA's. They have been, and remain, as good as Kevin Millwood's: 2000 - 3.38 2001 - 3.52 2002 - 3.18 2003 - 3.86 2004 - 4.01 2005 - 3.48 Career - 3.62 And his on-field ERA is 3.93 for his career. . Q: On further review, you think Washburn is a good pitcher? A: He is, yes. Having heard what Inside Pitch has to say on it, and suddenly realizing that Washburn is a card-carrying member of the Tommy John Family of Pitchers, and realizing that his K's have been down since 2003, while he has maintained low HR's and low XERA's ... Yes, you have to admit that Washburn is a solid #3 starting pitcher, a 15-game winner on a good team. That's why the M's had to pay $36m -- because other MLB teams saw that also. Q: Why are his skills so predictable year-to-year? A: Because he's a gamer, because his fastball moves (as Pitch pointed out), and because he's a graceful lefty with consistent mechanics. Q: Even though his K's are low? A: His K's are at the lower boundary of what is acceptable. Some good pitchers, such as Brad Radke, operate in the 5k area. Look, let's not outsmart ourselves here. Washburn has been doing it his whole life. He has NEVER had a translated K rate over 5.7 and his translated ERA has never been over 4.01. I originally thought Washburn's K's were declining, but they're not. They're exactly the same the last three years, and not far below his peak. I looked at Washburn's K rates, comp'ed him to Moyer, and figured he's smoke-and-mirrors. A closer look shows more crunch in the center. My bad. But it happens about 40 times per game to me in a chess tournament: you look once and think you have it nailed, and then you study a while and you see things in the position you didn't, at first glance. What you see in Washburn, at second glance, is a repeatable Tommy John game: he gives up hits, but walks nobody, and contains the HR's, and he's tough as nails, and he does it every year. . Q: What about Safeco? A: As a solid #3 starter who is lefty, Safeco could easily give Washburn a sparkling record. Hey, don't gimme any guff about lefties in Safeco, kids. USSM just spent a year oooh'ing and aaah'ing about Jamie Moyer's King Kong act at home. . Q: Still doesn't make him a smart sign. A: Too often we, including me, get too caught up in the question of "who is the most CLEVER signing." This happens in roto. An owner "realizes" that Jeremy Reed is a sleeper, and .... takes him 3rd round, to make sure everybody knows how smart he is. LOL. Jarrod Washburn is not a clever signing. But if you forget about how SEXY or TECHNO the signing is, you realize that Jarrod Washburn is going to be a whale of an effective pitcher in Safeco. . Q: Final Prognosis? A: On further review, I'd call Washburn about as effective an SP as Loaiza or Morris or Byrd, and better suited to Safeco. As a lefty #3SP, he'd have been delightful as the 2nd SP in behind Millwood, at say $5-6m per. So I, amigos, am going to laugh off the $9m per, and think of Jarrod Washburn as a nice second pitcher in. If Matt Clement, or similar, comes in as the deuce -- YOU hang yourself. I'm celebrating a weird, but powerful, 2006 rotation. :-) . Q: What does Inside Pitch have to say about him? A: From ITP: I think Millwood is a bit overrated as well, it's funny because people are expecting him to be better for the very reason they are expecting Wash to implode -- their peripherals. I think most people have covered the numbers and the perception that he's been lucky ... I actually have a hard time dismissing the numbers but at the same time Wash is one of those guys that makes me wonder about a pitcher actually trying to pitch to contact. The thing about Wash, he throws a weird fastball, it's got a hitch in it, you'll see him throw 10 FB in a row and yet you'll see the batter struggle to make good contact. The one thing that's been overstated a bit is the condition of his arm... Prior to last year he's never really had any arm problems, he's been on the DL with stuff like strep throat, stomach ailments, and early in his career oblique strains.. He really struggled with those a couple years ago too. I know you guys are TOed at the money involved, and I wouldn't want to see him making that sort of cake either but, I really do believe it's a case of a team paying the market rate. This has been a bad year for baseball's lords of the realm when it comes to fiscal restraint, I guess they will just have to comfort themselves with the loads of money they are making. Anyway, rather than sticking to one opinion, I think you might enjoy seeing what Angel fans are saying about the guy.mb3.scout.com/fanaheimang...1720.topicThe one thing you will come to love -- he is not afraid of ANY hitter, he will never get rattled, and he is the first guy to laugh at himself after he does something you just want to cringe at. ============= Well, you'll find you got a pitcher who's indicators are all predicting inpending doom and yet, when he pitches you will see a guy who is about as fearless a competitor (never seen him get rattled - ever), as you can find and a guy who takes his failures pretty well, some would say too well -- Im refering to Washburn's infamous smirk... The guy will give up a 700 foot HR and then turn around and give a silly grin. No clue what his future will hold for him, I'm sure the Ms board has talked up the issues with the indicators *(the falling K rate, the weak k/W rate, ect ect), and those should be genuine concerns but chances are the guy will continue to evolve into more of a finesse lefty. The consistent 92-93 FB isn't anywhere near as consistent as it used to be (he seems to top out around 90 these days), but he will still challenge hitters and trust his defense. He will still go out there and give a team everything he has for as long as he has it. Like Trrr said, maybe he will do better now that's he's out of Anaheim. I liked Wash, he was a good soilder for the Angels, he will be overpaid, and that contract is likely too long but, the market is what the market is... He should be okay for the first two years of that deal I would think.For the Angels -- this is yet another reason to talk contract extension with Kelvim Escobar..Best of luck to the bow hunter, except of course when he is facing the Halos. |











15 comments to this post:
Worley on SportSpot dug up this info that kind of makes me do the cartoonish double-take...
"Baseball Prospectus translated career stats:
Millwood:
8.2 H/9IP
6.5 K/9IP
2.3 BB/9IP
0.8 HR/9IP
3.64 ERA
Washburn:
8.2 H/9IP
5.1 K/9IP
2.4 BB/9IP
1.0 HR/9IP
3.62 ERA
Double play conversion rate (% of times the pitcher got a double play in a double play situation)
Millwood:
2005: 16%
2004: 9.7%
2003: 11.7%
2002: 13.9%
2001: 12.9%
Washburn:
2005: 22%
2004: 15.1%
2003: 7.4%
2002: 10.4%
2001: 11.1% "
So according to this analysis, they aren't as different as they might seem, and Washburn has an edge of .4% in double plays and may be on an upward trend there (he's also been inducing groundballs at a better than career average clip for the past two years), which would certainly be helped by our infield defense.
I don't think Washburn is our savior, per se, and definitely not a TOR, but I think that his signing is taking some unnecessary heat at the moment. In this kind of market, I would advocate overpaying for known, good commodities, but would Millwood be worth the additional 2+ million per year and another year tacked onto the contract? I'm not as convinced of that now, and if the difference goes above 2 million, I might even change my tune.
Millwood has some freakishly good performances and some mediocre ones, while Washburn has remained relatively stable, while putting up similar lines. Would I be more enthused if Washburn was a groundball pitcher? Heck yeah, bur this may not be as bad as it seems.
Great post JFro...
Yeah, you look at Wash and his K's jump out at you ....
But once you look past that, everything's good. You calm down for a second and you realize he's got Millwood-like consistency.
He's not an All-Star but he's consistently good and as a flyball lefty in Safeco ...
I am slowly being talked back from the ledge.
As y'know, we live to serve :-)
==================
I could get excited about the offseason with a big trade. Heh.
BABVA,
Dr D
Kevin Millwood, ERA +
2005: 143
2004: 90
2003: 103
2002: 127
2001: 102
2000: 100
Average: 111
Washburn, ERA +
2005: 131
2004: 99
2003: 96
2002: 138
2001: 126
2000: 133
Average: 120
Washburn's game is ideally suited to Safeco Field. He is a good control lefty who induces lots of fly balls to the cavernous center and left of the Safe.
This is not a bad signing. We do need one more, though. The Millwood guy would be good, too. :-)
-Chris
You want a big sample size to get excited about? Washburn's ERA on the road has trended down for three straight years:
2003 - 4.39
2004 - 3.77
2005 - 2.65
Pretty much all his peripherals back up the fact that he's a whole 'nuther pitcher anywhere but Angel Stadium.
So instead of Angel Stadium, why don't we let him pitch in what might be the most perfect ballpark in baseball for him and see what happens? We got ourselves a #3 starter who puts up TOR numbers for us whilst helping give the rest of his teammates some needed pluck.
I feel proud right now to be the first poster spanked by USSM Dave for bringing up Washburn as a legit rotation candidate back in September. Bill Bavasi's got my back. ;)
in one post you make fun of "saberdweebs," but in the next you're talking about Translated ERA's?
Ok, chief.
2006 Mariners = last place.
_______________________
I originally thought Washburn's K's were declining, but they're not. They're exactly the same the last three years, and not far below his peak.
____________________________________
Huh? O.o;;
** 2001- 5.87 K/9
2002- 6.07 K/9 ** peak years
2003- 5.12 K/9
2004- 5.18 K/9
2005- 4.77 K/9
If that's not a decline, what is?
In his peak, he was putting K-rates in the high-5, borderline 6 area. From 1997-2005 Moyer has only had a K-rate under 5.39 twice; in 2001 at 5.11 and 2005 at 4.59.
That's just the one thing that stuck out as complete bull...
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2006 Mariners = last place.
____________________________________
2006 Mariners = Projected 87-win team not counting plausible improvements (or declines, I will say honestly. Though the improvements will more likely outweigh the declines).
If that's last place, we have what I dare say is the toughest division in baseball history.
Jarrod is a risky investment that was totally unneccesary. He is a #3-4 starter with declining K rates that coincide with a declining fastball. The Byrd, Loaiza and even Morris deals were prefferable (although none of those were great deals either).
Bavasi lost me this past week. Cleary he IS NOT a saber-friendly GM. Its ok to rely on scouting more than numbers, but to completely disregard sabermetrics is foolish.
Why was Washburn signed? A left-handed starter 3.20 ERA and great makeup. Its inexcusable for a major-league FO to not be able to see through that.
I mean its great that hes left-handed and all, but he is also average at allowing HRS to lefties (1HR/9 career). Safeco isn't going to aid his stats in that department. The 3.20 ERA has been beaten to death, I wont go there..
I just don't understand. Why not go a couple more mil and a year longer for Millwood? If EVERYTHING breaks right the M's make the playoffs.. and get blasted out of the division series. Is Washburn a guy you want starting in a playoff series? If not then don't hand him $36mil. Its that simple.
The Washburn signing is further evidence to me that the M's have no itention of getting into the fight.
Well, signing Washburn at 4 years and not Millwood at 5 reeks of Howard Lincoln controlling things.
It's been said by Jason Churchill, among others with inside ties, that Bavasi's the guy in charge of it all, but it's just an unshakeable feeling of mine because it makes absolutely no sense from any perspective that Washburn is a better deal at 4/$38 than Millwood at 5/$50 or 5/$55 or whatever.
Bavasi this offseason seems like the Bavasi of the 2003 offseason; the puppet of an idiot puppetmaster. He has one of the top sabermetricians in the world as a major advisor in Matt Olkin. He's demonstrated that he is saber-friendly in the past. The guy who we see as Bill Bavasi isn't acting like Bill Bavasi. He's acting like Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong.
"Bavasi this offseason seems like the Bavasi of the 2003 offseason; the puppet of an idiot puppetmaster."
Perhaps he was the idiot all along. The Washburn/Everett signing are his, and it puts a little perspective on the horrible signings of past years- Aurilia, Speizio, Sele, etc. etc. He also doesn't pursue saber-friendly players, he likes the big names and players with "grit" (or did that change to "'tude" this offseason?).
His only good Free Agent move in the past three years has been Sexson, and probably Johjima.
He's great at building a farm system and picking up talented minor-leagurs for scraps, but he's horrible at signing value in the free agent market and identifying underrated MLBers. Bavasi's weaknesses have a much larger effect on the 25-man roster more than his strengths.
Its becoming clear to me that Bavasi isn't capable of building a championship team. Bavasi admits himself that hes no good at player evaluation (hes pretty much said so in interviews), so he surrounds himself with baseball men. Problem is, his biggest baseball man is Mike Hargrove. UGh... He'd be a great Farm Director, but he is not a good GM.
Hargrove has had a HUGE voice on roster decisions since he has been signed:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002684713_mari15.html
"We had our choice. We had a lot of players we could have gone with," said general manager Bill Bavasi. "Chuck [Armstrong, team president] and I talked to Mike Hargrove at the winter meetings and laid some names out for him — let him choose, almost. He didn't hesitate. He went for Carl right away."
Remember Sele, Pokey, Thorton, and Franklin over Felix, Campillo, Lopez, and Sherill?
Well now it looks like Hargrove has some considerable influence on free agent signings as well. Wonderful.
The M's didn't refuse to give Millwood 5 years.
They refused to "wait it out until January", which is what Boras has told three different teams he wants to do.
The M's can't wait.
As for Washburn, there is no explanation.
It's a terrible deal for a southpaw version of Ryan Franklin, circa 2003.
The only problem with comparing Washburn to Franklin is that they don't really match up well at all.
In Franklin's 2003 season (his best ever) he posted:
K/9 of 4.2
K/BB of 1.62
We're still waitning for Washburn to sink to those levels. His worst is still better than Franklin's best.
The other major area of differential is home runs. Both pitchers are flyball pitchers, but Washburn seems to not like to allow the longball as much as Franklin does. For their careers, Washburn is at 1.17 HR/9 and Franklin is at 1.38. Washburn's ratio dropped to .97 in 2005.
Franklin sucks about that bad everywhere, but Washburn only seems to have problems at Angel Stadium. On the road his HR/9 is down to 1.02.
If you believe that Safeco Field will allow as many of his bombs as Angel Stadium did, you can see what you're getting in Washburn.
If you believe Safeco Field is a pitchers' park that suppresses home runs, then the only thing 2003 Franklin and Jarrod Washburn will have in common is their ERA. Which is, of course, a good thing.
1. I always poke good-natured fun at saberdweebs, anonymous, of which I am one. You should read more before evaluating. :-)
2. The *translated* K's (see the BP DT) show the steadiness of the rate. In any case, 5.1 to 4.8 isn't enough of a deflection to base any conclusions on.
3. Last year Bavasi chased *nobody* who was not saber-friendly, but this winter he has definitely broken from that pattern.
Everett is an attempt to recapture the Tony Phillips magic; Jarrod Washburn is a LEGITIMATE attempt to judge a pitcher based on non-sabermetric factors.
4. The key difference between Washburn and Franklin (or Moyer 2004) is that Washburn has demonstrated an ability to keep HR down despite low K rates.
At no time did Ryan Franklin show a long-term ability to suppress HR's despite his K rates. Jamie Moyer also has recently, and still is, battling gopheritis to the death.
Jarrod Washburn has, for seven consecutive years, prevented HR's. It's time to simply admit that he does not have gopheritis.
It makes no more sense to predict Washburn for gopheritis in 2006 than it does to predict Richie Sexson for 18 homers.
Cheers,
Dr D
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